Okay, I think I've consumed enough caffeine to touch this argument with a pole of less than 5 feet in length.
The Bechdel test is not meaningless. You are making the assumption that its purpose is to measure the overall worth and quality of a film, which it does not. You are also taking extreme examples (all male vs all female casts) when it's purpose is to evaluate trends in the middle of the bell curve.
The purpose of the Bechdel test is to underline the point that women, if they exist at all in movies or television, are essentially one-note: they are either the romantic interest/girlfriend/wife or the man crazy sex bomb. If you get a character that is none of the above, she is the ONLY presence on screen; "one of the guys" essentially. To take one of your examples, Ripley. No one's saying she's not a strong female character or that she doesn't kick major ass. However, for those of us ladies that would occasionally like to see more than one of those archetypes on screen at a time, we're usually shit out of luck.
Interesting side note: Alien 3 is the ONLY movie in the Alien franchise to not pass. It's also the weakest in the series, I think, for unrelated reasons. Not quite sure why you picked that installment as your example, but it doesn't do much for your argument.
Is it a simplistic measure? absolutely. But the point its trying to make is anything but meaningless. You guys have the privilege of seeing yourselves or men you'd like to emulate everywhere without, by default, having their characterization either underscored or undermined by their ability to score/have a relationship.
One more generalized point - I can think of several excellent prison dramas right off the top of my head, set in all male prisons. I can't think of one on the opposite end of the spectrum. The closest I can manage is Girl, Interrupted, and mental institution ≠ prison. I'm sure they're out there, but I think the idea that if they are, they have not acheived the profile of, say, Oz, or Shawshank Redemption says something by itself, namely, "who besides a bunch of chicks are going to be interested in watching this (unless they all get naked)?"
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Date: 2010-10-27 07:09 pm (UTC)From:The Bechdel test is not meaningless. You are making the assumption that its purpose is to measure the overall worth and quality of a film, which it does not. You are also taking extreme examples (all male vs all female casts) when it's purpose is to evaluate trends in the middle of the bell curve.
The purpose of the Bechdel test is to underline the point that women, if they exist at all in movies or television, are essentially one-note: they are either the romantic interest/girlfriend/wife or the man crazy sex bomb. If you get a character that is none of the above, she is the ONLY presence on screen; "one of the guys" essentially. To take one of your examples, Ripley. No one's saying she's not a strong female character or that she doesn't kick major ass. However, for those of us ladies that would occasionally like to see more than one of those archetypes on screen at a time, we're usually shit out of luck.
Interesting side note: Alien 3 is the ONLY movie in the Alien franchise to not pass. It's also the weakest in the series, I think, for unrelated reasons. Not quite sure why you picked that installment as your example, but it doesn't do much for your argument.
Is it a simplistic measure? absolutely. But the point its trying to make is anything but meaningless. You guys have the privilege of seeing yourselves or men you'd like to emulate everywhere without, by default, having their characterization either underscored or undermined by their ability to score/have a relationship.
One more generalized point - I can think of several excellent prison dramas right off the top of my head, set in all male prisons. I can't think of one on the opposite end of the spectrum. The closest I can manage is Girl, Interrupted, and mental institution ≠ prison. I'm sure they're out there, but I think the idea that if they are, they have not acheived the profile of, say, Oz, or Shawshank Redemption says something by itself, namely, "who besides a bunch of chicks are going to be interested in watching this
(unless they all get naked)?"/$0.02